30.EP.27e: August 3, 2002.
"The War Party, part 4:
Wishful Thinking."
This is the face that we show the world.
--Shriekback, "Clear Trails."
Bob: But....
Brian: But what?
Bob: But, in that
art book that Adrian has, where it said that the Postmodern age was, essentially,
the 1980s....
Brian: Yeah?
Bob: That makes this
time Post-Post Modern.
Brian: Yeah.
Bob: But, how do you
explain that all this Post-Post-Modern art all deals with the exact same
stuff as the Post-Modern?
Brian: I can't.
Bob: Postmodernism
hasn't really evolved, as much as it's just repeated itself.
Brian: Maybe it's
become more postmodern than Postmodernism itself?
Bob: Or, maybe it's
just reached a point where anything that's not the so-called "Postmodern"
is just a retreat into the past, back into Modernism?
Brian: That is a possibility,
yeah.
Bob: Because, how
do you get more self-reflexive than stuff that's already totally self-reflexive,
or more ironic than absolute irony? Or if you're going to appropriate
stuff, how do you get more appropriative than you already are? When
people make art that's a bunch of collages of stuff, you can't make it
more of a collage.
Brian: Or, if you're
all theoretical about everything-- and everybody has their little theories
about how the world works, now-- if you put every aspect of your life under
constant self aware analysis, total 24/7 theoretical scrutiny, how do you
get more theoretical than that?
Bob: How do you get
hyper-hyper-real? Or hyper-hyper-hyper-real?
Brian: It's like dealing
with degrees of infinity. There are different types of infinity,
that's been demonstrated aplenty. And that's intellectually interesting.
But from the point of view of a finite being, all infinity is the same--
except on an extremely abstract level.
Bob: And all hyperreality
is the same. Except on a abstract level.
Brian: When simulations
begin to simulate themselves, does it really matter if these simulated
simulations also begin to simulate?
Bob: Or if the simulated
simulated simulations also simulate?
Brian: From our point
of view.
Bob: Except in the
abstract.
Brian: That is, the
theoretical.
Bob: That is, right
where we are right now.
Brian: And how do
you get any more theoretical than we are right now?
Bob: It'd be hard.
Brian: So, from our
point of view it doesn't really matter.
Bob: Except in theory.
Brian: That's right.
Bob: So, we're left
with only one conclusion.
Brian: Sort of, but
not really.
Bob: But, in the same
time, really. Because it's all theory anyway, now.
Brian: True enough.
Bob: So, we're left
with only one conclusion.
Brian: And that is?
Bob: If Postmodernism
is an '80s phenomenon, and anything that tries to reach beyond Postmodernism
is simply a retreat into Modernism, and if Postmodernism is still a valid
point of view, which it seems to be-- probably-- if anything is valued
any more-- which is itself a very Postmodern point of view-- if this is
all true, then....
Brian: Then what?
Bob: Then we're left
with only one possibility.
Brian: And that is?
Bob: The 1980s have
not ended yet. Because we're still in the Postmodern age. Even
if we are in the postpostmodern age. Because Postmodernism and Postpostmodernism
are the same.
Brian: So the 1980s
have lasted for over 20 years.
Bob: It'sİ2002, but
it's still the 1980s.
Brian: Or, maybe somewhere
in the middle of the 80s.
Bob: Maybe 1985?
Brian: Maybe.
That sounds good. I like the ring of that. More or less, right
in the middle. Forevermore. In a way, at least.
Bob: Welcome to the
G8. Welcome to the 21st Century. Welcome to 2002. Welcome
to 1985....
